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^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Mon Oct 15 14:09:04 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: Elvis Presley!

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Mon Oct 15 12:40:41 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Presidents
Question: Who was the first president to get a brown belt in Judo?

^ v
YayOfTheDay says:
(Mon Oct 15 12:28:37 2018 [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for shadowquest!

yay shadowquest!

Goodbye Blue Monday!

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Mon Oct 15 12:22:19 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Monday, October 15 2018 C.E.

We have TWELVE (12) Birthdays!

Original Jessica

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to angelgazer, drunkenfairy, echo, Kristen, lonegun, Lurkerfish, mudpuppy, Myxti, Nightshade, Original Jessica, RedThunder, ayedMyself!

I kissed him, and I told him that I loved him. And I killed him. Buffy, 'Faith, Hope & Trick''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

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white wings says:
(Mon Oct 15 05:27:51 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Happy Birthday Candy, Liquorice Stick, Lurkerfish, RubberDevilDucky, Squints, TB, and ying!

R.I.P. Malista

Christopher Marlowe - I had a very lazy day. Naps seemed to be required activities. It was hot (88) and humid out. The heat before the front that has already hit you. The temperature is dropping rapidly as I type, so I'm guessing it's here.

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wolfguard says:
(Mon Oct 15 05:14:06 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

Great weather in Atlanta. How was your Sunday? Meetings? *g*


Two jokes I heard in June 1967 after the Six Day War...

(1) Let's got to Israel and see the Pyramids.

(2) How many gears does an Egyptian tank have?

(( 5, 1-forward and 4-in reverse))



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Oct 14 23:28:47 2018 [Edit/Delete]
I trust everyone had a splendid Sunday?

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Sun Oct 14 15:31:25 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Sunday, October 14th 2018 C.E.

We have EIGHT (8) Birthdays!

Liquorice Stick

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Candy, Liquorice Stick, Lurkerfish, Malista, RubberDevilDucky, Squints, TB, ying!

Also, I can kill you with my brain. River, 'Trash''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Oct 14 14:34:46 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Good morning beta!

^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Sun Oct 14 12:30:40 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Belated Happy Birthday
and Leather Jacket!

^ v
Maverick says:
(Sun Oct 14 10:13:33 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Wolfguard, white wing: You guys are missing out on an old joke and it goes something like this: During the 6 Day War an Egyptian and an Israeli tank collide and the Egyptian jumps out of his tank and say, "I surrender. I surrender" and the Jewish guy jumps out of his tank, holding the back of his neck, and says, "Whiplash. Whiplash." Of course, reinforce the hull, but when the Chinese hit you, call the Intenational police and file a police report. Have them test the Chinese Captain for a DWI.

I'm Looking for an expression, from an old episode of "Star Trek, Next Generation" where they are stopped in space and cannot advance or retreat (for some reason I forget) but their Momentum is Zero and they used an expression like Zero Momentum but that's not it. Can anyone remember what it was?


Love Theme from "Star Trek, TMP"

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white wings says:
(Sun Oct 14 07:12:40 2018 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard - That makes more sense and even more fun. I had the wrong end of the stick. I
thought you wanted a cheap fake warship to lure them on. Ever more practical, you realized that the
Chinese are liable to menace anything coming into *their* international waters. So a tanker (without
requiring an expensive makeover) would work fine. They could blink and lose face, stay away and
lose face, or collide and die, and the local fishies would have the basis for a new reef. Win, win, win

A few explosives fireworks would still be fun.

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wolfguard says:
(Sun Oct 14 05:55:02 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Sun Oct 14 05:57:27 2018
White Wings,

I'm not thinking of using an oil tanker as a warship. What the Chinese Navy
has done a few times is to have one of its ship put itself in the path of
one our ships forcing us to bear off or come to emergency stop to prevent a
collision. Oil tankers aren't so maneuverable or able to come to 'sudden'

So, commission an oil tanker and convert it into whatever.1 Task
it to steam through international waters claimed by China. Any Chinese
warship that chooses to get too close will be at risk, because the tanker
simply cannot maneuver quickly enough to avoid it should conditions quickly
change. If a Chinese warship cut in front trying to force the tanker to bear
off or stop - it'll get cleaved into because it will simply impossible to
stop or bear off - too much inertia.

OTOH, a Chinese warship could come to stop far enough ahead that we could
bear off or go around, but it'd be so far that it loses the the perception
of the US having to conform to their actions. We might even play the
situation and ask the Chinese warship if it's experiencing problems and need
our help. :)

ETA We could say such a commissioned tanker is a some sort of experimental
or research ship. Whatever sounds reasonable. *g*


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white wings says:
(Sun Oct 14 05:14:08 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Happy Birthday Candiz, Cashmere, DreamLurkeer, Ed6, Hello, goth_gurl, Jipsy_Girl, Kazanjian, Leather Jacket, Mandakay, Morbius, and Nikana!

wolfguard - We both have our pipe dreams. I have my US islands, you have a fake warship. An oil tanker probably has a far different hull shape, and couldn't pass as something like a destroyer. Do we still have converted carriers? On the other hand, from time to time warships do reach their expiration dates. Could one dream of a remote control ship loaded with explosives?

Christopher Marlowe - I'm sorry about winter.

It reached 88 here, according to my back porch thermometer. However, by Monday a modified version of your weather will reach here. *shiver* Although I am not expecting snow. Just 50s and rain.

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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Oct 14 02:05:59 2018 [Edit/Delete]
winter has finally arrived, snow, sleet and wind. Yuck.

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wolfguard says:
(Sat Oct 13 18:05:01 2018 [Edit/Delete]

Because I can. :)


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Trivia Girl says:
(Sat Oct 13 15:14:44 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Saturday, October 13th 2018 C.E.

We have TWELVE (12) Birthdays!

Leather Jacket

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Candiz, Cashmere, DreamLurkeer
Ed6, Hello, goth_gurl, Jipsy_Girl, Kazanjian, Leather Jacket, Mandakay
Morbius, Nikana!

on't you just love this party? Everything's so fancy, and there's some kind of hot cheese over there. Kaylee, 'Shindig'

to be added to the birthday list, please email

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Trivia Girl says:
(Sat Oct 13 04:25:50 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Sports
Question: What team did Roberto Enrique Clemente Walker play for? Answer: Pittsburg Pirates

Trivia master as always is ME

^ v
des says:
(Sat Oct 13 03:39:10 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Sat Oct 13 03:40:34 2018
The emergency bronze posting system is separate and different from the Bronze Beta password renewal system. [grins at ChristopherMarlowe] {talk about timing}

This is a test of the Bronze Beta password renewal system. If this had been a real post, a message or comment would have been typed. This concludes this test of the Bronze Beta password renewal system.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Oct 12 23:32:46 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Fri Oct 12 23:33:09 2018
Just read that one of the original Boy Scout merit badges was "Master-of-
Arms". It had one requirement ...

Master 3 of the following combat skills: single stick, boxing, jiu jitsu,
wrestling, quarterstaff, and fencing.

I missed this one. :(


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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Oct 12 23:14:53 2018 [Edit/Delete]
werewolf123 Thank you!

this is only a test post of the emergency bronze posting system, if this was an actual post, I would be around tonight

^ v
werewolf123 says:
(Fri Oct 12 21:51:47 2018 [Edit/Delete]

good game if you have a couple of days to play it.

sequel invasion russia

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Oct 12 18:57:22 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Mid-day posting. Won't be online
tonight due to back to back board

That gives everyone more time to
answer the trivia question!

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Fri Oct 12 12:38:25 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Sports
Question: What team did Roberto Enrique Clemente Walker play for? Hint:

^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Fri Oct 12 12:31:06 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Yay! Peace Fire!

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Fri Oct 12 12:25:36 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Friday, October 12th 2018 C.E.

We have SEVEN (7) Birthdays!


Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to sara, angela, FYR, Fiveby5, KIMP, Kytee, sts!

Just keep walking, preacher-man. River, 'Jaynestown'

to be added to the birthday list, please email

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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Oct 12 12:15:27 2018 [Edit/Delete]
yay peace fire!

Happy Thank Joss It's Friday!

^ v
Comma says:
(Fri Oct 12 11:59:17 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Anyone in the PC area: Verizon has brought in portable towers, COMCAST has had wifi hotspots up for over thirty hours, and a lot of businesses, with generators, will let you charge your devise for free. Communications is the big key right now. I know that a lot of all are living in your cars. Please leave a window cracked. We do not need any more added to the death tolls from a leaking car exhaust system.


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YayOfTheDay says:
(Fri Oct 12 11:41:28 2018 [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for peace fire!

yay peace fire!

Happy Thank Joss It's Friday!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Oct 12 07:17:43 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Fri Oct 12 07:26:54 2018
White Wings,

There are many people who believe the existence of nuclear weapons prevented
a major war between the US and the USSR. Both sides knew what was behind
that door. Not certain how well this logic applies in world of multiple
rivalries between nuclear-armed adversaries.

Many historians of wars think small wars sometimes prevent big wars. One
reason is unrealistic assessments get popped. OTOH, a small war may not
settle matters leaving the situation to fester into the future.

ETA Some others share your wish that the US construct some islands of its
own in the South China Sea. China may argue they built their islands atop
natural features belonging to China.

Since a common Chinese tactic is to play chicken between their ships and
others, I'd like to commission an oil tanker as a US warship. Paint it haze
grey, replace the oil with water, and dare the Chinese to ram it. *g*


^ v
white wings says:
(Fri Oct 12 03:54:41 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Yay Jynx!

Happy Birthday Annika, Charming Slayer, and Nyte Wolf!

Comma - Congratulations on having all your relatives survive unharmed and your properties make it through undamaged! It's great that you have the resources to offer your relatives to help them, but the losses are horrifying.

Dogmeat - *waves back*

wolfguard, DaddyCatALSO - I've never read or heard of anyone on the Allied side suggesting that the casualties of invasion would not have been much greater had the bombs not been dropped, especially those who lived through that period. I did know people who lived through the war in Japan, and read some accounts, and the populace was in seriously bad shape. They were starving. They suggested that the will to fight had not been so great, but they were not in the military. I fear the commanders still had the stomach to fight on and the control over their military to do it. A blockade and bombing might have taken a considerably longer time.

I was having a wooly-headed tender-hearted sigh over our letting that awful genie out of the bottle. I was forgetting that over the ensuing generations, the possibility of mutually assured destruction might have prevented a major land war from breaking out, and saved lives, even if the less widespread proxy wars were costly. I was also forgetting that the genie was ready to pop the cork from the moment the Nazis got the idea, and we got to it first, and the Soviets were thinking about it as well.

wolfguard(2) - I wish the US would/could build its own island bases in the South China Sea. But it's kind of expensive. I still find the idea amusing.

lostinamerica - I'm surprised there are only ~200 people possibly missing. I think a lot more people failed to evacuate, but if there had been mass casualties, surely we'd have heard that by now.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Oct 12 03:26:41 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper,

3 of 3

China depends on overseas resources and markets for its economic well-being.
Consequently China is vulnerable to attacks and threats of attacks on its sea-
lines-of-communication (SLOC). Much, if not most, of shipping coming and going
to China passes through the Indian Ocean. Attacks on such shipping is a sub's
traditional reasoning for being. Of course China is strongly aware of such
threats and its "string of pearls" and "Belt and Road Initiative" are policies
designed, in part, to minimize such threats.

But in the beginning of strategy, one must ask how the means of force can
achieve the ends one seeks.

Night All


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Oct 12 02:43:54 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper,

2 of 2 3

In the mid-1990's China became angry with Taiwan over its moves to separate
itself further from the main-land. To demonstrate its anger, China conducted
missile-firing tests aimed at Taiwan. After the second tests, the Clinton
administration sent two carrier battle groups to the scene. The
Nimitz group sailed through the Taiwan Straits. China took heed ...

... and began a long-term plan to develop its military forces, especially
its navy, so to push the USN further and further out to sea, away from the
mainland. China combines land-based aircraft and missiles, surface warships,
submarines and eventually carriers (it now has two). The plan is to develop
in layers: "The First Island Chain" and then the "Second Island Chain", and
one day perhaps the "Third Island Chain".

This is a strategy than begins with sea denial1 and works towards
sea control. The USN appears to be focused on power projection - being able
to strike at China from the sea. Consequently its plans oppose China's
plans. We want to be able to hit if need be and they want to prevent us from
being able to so or threaten to do so.

On first appearance it might look like the US is the potential aggressor, in
so much as we're off their coast and they're not off ours. OTOH, one could
argue the US threat is designed to persuade China not to force its will on
regional allied states. Cases in point: the East and South China Sea

1 Another phrase, "Anti-Access Area Denial". Google it for the


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Oct 12 02:33:05 2018 [Edit/Delete]
dogmeat/b] Hey there! Whatcha up to these days?

^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Fri Oct 12 02:31:31 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Comma--Good to hear, you must be relieved :) I have two friends who
vacationed in Port St. Joe and San Blas recently, and while they supposedly
aren't as bad as Mexico Beach there's lots of damage :(

Those 20 people they found in Mexico Beach who decided to stay are cra-zy and I
hope the 200+ others who were supposed to have stayed decided to leave and
weren't swept away with their houses :(

Looks like Panama City, the Redneck Riviera, didn't fare so well either.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Oct 12 02:15:03 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Greetings Dogmeat :)

Agent Cooper,

1 of 2

Navies fight wars through sea control, sea denial, and power projection.
1 One can make a more detailed list of naval operations, but most
could be fit into one of these three categories.

(1) Sea Control involves establishing conditions where your ships, military
and merchant, can steam freely and safely while the enemy's cannot.
Realistically sea control is a transient state, you can create the
conditions for a relatively limited time over a limited space. The campaign
against the U-Boats both in WWI and WWII were fights over sea control. Much
of the USN's efforts during the Cold War were designed to achieve sea
control over convoy routes in the Atlantic should a war break out with the
Soviet Union.

(2) Sea Denial differs from Sea Control in you're not able to create
conditions where your ships can steam safely, but you are able to create
conditions where the enemy's ships cannot steam safely. An example would be
placing mines or firing land-based missiles or guns.

(3) Power Projection is attacking the land from the sea. The attack could be
by missile, aircraft, gun, Marines, or SEALs. Since the Cold War ended, the
USN has focused on Power Projection over Sea Control or Sea Denial.

1 During peacetime one could add presence, deterrence, disaster
relief/humanitarian assistance. During both peace and war navies conduct


^ v
Dogmeat says:
(Fri Oct 12 01:26:31 2018 [Edit/Delete]

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Oct 12 01:24:56 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

Not successfully.


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Oct 12 01:05:34 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper,

From last night ...

"...Under international law, most of the South China Sea is international
waters. China does not recognize these laws. Various southeast Asian
countries have rights, under international law, to waters off their coasts.
China does not recognize many of these claims.

China has contested control of various reefs and islands. They usually use

(cont) maritime law enforcement ships to coerce other countries' ships. For
instance, Chinese fishing trawlers will enter other countries' zones or
seas. If the trawlers are challenged, then the MLE vessel will threaten to
ram or ram or use water cannons to drive off challengers. Sometimes Chinese
warships will be just over the horizon.1

In the past few years, China has constructed ~half a dozen artificial
islands in the disputed areas on which they have built harbors and
airstrips, radars and missile installations. Short of an all out war with a
peer competitor, China effectively controls the South China Sea.2

The US' general position is that countries bordering the South China Sea
need to work matters out according to international law, but takes no
position on individual cases.3 The USN does sail through waters
claimed by China, but not recognized by international law. The recent
incident at sea involved such an operation.

More in a bit on US-China war at sea.

1 China and Vietnam did engage in a naval battle over the Paracel
islands in the early 70's. I believe they also had a violent dispute over
some reef in the 80's.

2 China has also enacted an "air defense identification zone"
over the South China Sea (they've already done it over the East China Sea.
Essentially it says to anyone wanting to fly through these areas that they
have to first check-in with China to avoid possible defensive actions. It's
laying claim of sovereignty over the seas below. Most, if not all, domestic
airlines have obeyed. OTOH, when it was first announced over the East China
Sea, the US immediately flew military aircraft through the zone to make the
point that we do not recognize it.

3 Excepting perhaps China's ignoring the rulings of international


^ v
cmarlowe says:
(Fri Oct 12 01:01:50 2018 [Edit/Delete]

i wonder how feasible it would be to invade the US?

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Oct 12 00:36:40 2018 [Edit/Delete]

The estimates I've seen for US casualties incurred in invading Japan is one

The two other options proposed for defeating Japan were naval blockade and a
continuation of conventional strategic bombing. Some historians believe what
lead Japan to finally surrender was the Soviet's declaration of war against
Japan in August 1945.

I've never known any solider or Marine who served in the Pacific during WWII
and who was facing 'participation' in invading Japan who did not believe
dropping the nuclear bombs was the right thing to do.


^ v
Comma says:
(Fri Oct 12 00:25:52 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Out of nine family members, living in the PC area, all are alive and accounted for. Four houses totaled and three others damaged. My condo, in Destin, received no actual damaged. Some of the other condos did lose some windows, and the roof lost shingles. When they can get out of their neighborhoods, my family members with either go stay in the condo or go up to my farm near Slocomb, Alabama. Thanks to Comcast setting up hot spots, I have been able to email the family, the farm caretaker, and the building management at the condo.


^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Thu Oct 11 23:37:03 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Thu Oct 11 23:38:13 2018
yay jynx!

Happy CD Thursday!

Sorry for the lack of trivia today...I woke up late and had to rush to work....

^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Thu Oct 11 15:31:27 2018 [Edit/Delete]
white wings wolfguard The invasion of the Main Islands would have resulted in many more Japanese casualties than Hiroshima/Nagasaki, not to mention Allied casualties. The The question is would the invasionkk have happened?

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Thu Oct 11 14:35:37 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Wolfguard: I wish I could find the article I read, I think you'd find it interesting. Fairly sure it was on either Jane's or Rand. And I read it over the summer. I'll look for it again.

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Thu Oct 11 12:52:19 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Wolfguard: Darnit! I was getting into that. I hate cliff hangers!


And actually, the article mentioned that very idea you were, I think, heading into: The big advantage the Chinese would have is that while the US can move its subs and carriers around, it's bases are fixed. And vulnerable. The expectation is that China would immediately hit and probably take out all US naval and air bases in Japan, Korea, etc. within missile range. Which would go a long way to hampering US operations. ...for a short time.

The problems with this strategy are that A. The US has a proven long range strike capability. Any respite will be short lived. B. Once China starts hitting bases in on the home territory of other nations, they risk bringing them into the war. (The assumption is that in a limited confrontation between the US and China, several Pacific nations - even though allies of the US - may be reluctant to take an active part unless dragged in forcibly.) and C. The Subs we just talked about. Yes the Chinese have Subs, and they know about anti-sub warfare, but their capability isn't thought to be enough to be a real problem to the US subs, which would be a major threat.

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Thu Oct 11 12:43:05 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Thursday, October 11 2018 C.E.

We have FOUR (4) Birthdays!

Michelle Trachtenberg as Dawn Summers

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Annika, Charming Slayer, Michelle Trachtenberg, Nyte Wolf!

Pretty cool except for the part where I was really terrified and now my knees are all dizzy. Willow, 'Listening to Fear''''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
YayOfTheDay says:
(Thu Oct 11 11:57:01 2018 [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for jynx!

yay jynx!

Happy CD Thursday!

^ v
white wings says:
(Thu Oct 11 04:00:04 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Yay Ronia!

Happy Birthday belmont, Dax, Destiny, Megdalen, and Miss Edith!

wolfguard - I understand your bemusement at trying to locate the carriers. I hunted around and a Wikipedia page about US carriers said that 78 escort carriers were built between 1941 and 1945. A different page on escort carriers said that of 151 carriers built in the US during WWII, 122 were escort carriers. Were some of them given to the Royal Navy? I glazed over when the all the different classes came up in the pages that I found. *throws up hands*

I used the word senseless, but the author, Saburo Sakai, tried to describe his emotions on being ordered to lead a flight of promising young flyers into a ship, and that was the best I could come up with. But he and his superiors were acutely aware of the argument you put forth. Some eventuality, an attack by US aircraft, or a storm (it's been a long time since I read it) caused him to be unable to locate the target, and they returned, which is how he survived to write the book. Apparently his immediate superiors had had the same feelings, since they were relieved that he survived.

Stepping back, the limited success they had at Okinawa, which was serious damage to the enemy (i.e. us), but without preventing the loss (to them) of the island, led directly to the horrors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The military feared an even greater loss of life on invading the main islands, and felt that the atomic bombs might actually save lives. I do not know, perhaps they did, but at a different cost to future generations.

Christopher Marlowe - I agree with your prediction of how the Scoobies would react to Halloween, except for Giles. Remember the sombrero and "It's alive! It's alive!"? He, ah, grew after experiencing Halloweens in Sunnydale. *g*

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Oct 11 03:48:16 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper,

US submarines, like all submarines, have sensor and communication
constraints. A submarine's primary, organic sensor is its sonar, both active
and passive. Active is more precise, but announces the sub's presence.
Consequently the sub will usually use passive sonar. This can have great
range, but not a lot of precision.

Once upon a time, to see a sub had to go to periscope depth and once there
its range of sight was still limited. There are now ways to 'see' without
coming to periscope depth, but they still provide limited range.
Essentially, if a sub depends entirely on its onboard sensors then it's

What a sub can do is use communications to link into the rest of the Fleet.
The USN's goal is to tie-all ships, subs, aircraft, satellites and the like
into one nervous system that can share information. It's powerful, but it's
also vulnerable to hacking. Will you trust the information? Enough to act

If there were a war where subs fired missiles or torpedoes, then there will
come a time when you're emptied. No more missiles, no more torpedoes. The
sub will have to go to a designated place to be re-armed and the enemy will
be looking or will have found such places. It's a vulnerability.

All this assumes there is a war. China has achieved its aims in the South
China Sea without having gone to war. Here's the nutshell ...

Under international law, most of the South China Sea is international
waters. China does not recognize these laws. Various southeast Asian
countries have rights, under international law, to waters off their coasts.
China does not recognize many of these claims.

China has contested control of various reefs and islands. They usually use

Oops Have to finish tomorrow night,


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Oct 11 02:03:14 2018 [Edit/Delete]
White Wings,

When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, the USN had 8 carriers, by hull
number. 1 through 8...

USS Langley
USS Lexington
USS Sarasota
USS Ranger
USS Yorktown
USS Enterprise
USS Wasp
USS Hornet

"Langley" had been converted from a collier. She was so badly damaged in
battle that she was scuttled.

"Lexington" and "Sarasota" were originally designed as battlecruisers.

"Ranger" was the first US carrier designed and built to be a carrier.

Lexington, Yorktown, Wasp, and Hornet were sunk in battle.

(Twelve US carriers were sunk during the war.)

Ranger, Sarasota, and Enterprise survived the war.

USS Essex, CV-9, was the lead ship of 24 Essex-class carriers. She
was commissioned late in 1942.

I've been trying to get an exact count of US carriers that served in WWII,
but I get different figures. If you google ~ number of US carriers WW2 ~ an
answer appears: 53 of all types with 48 built during the war. OK, but I know
there were over 120 escort carriers built.

Searching for all carriers had by participants in WWII lead to chart listing
around 200+ carriers (the list isn't numbered, I just scrolled down trying
to keep track of where I was). A problem here is several different
categories of carriers are included: carrier, light carrier, escort carrier,
merchant carrier, seaplane carrier, and even a ~ maintenance carrier.

The lion's share were in the US, Japanese, and British fleets. France had at
least one carrier as did Italy and Germany. Not sure the types.

Jumping to the end of your post where you noted the Japanese pilot who spoke
of the ~senseless sacrifice~ of the Kamikaze pilots. I'd not be so quick to
use "senseless". By 1945 the Japanese knew they had no chance of beating the
US. The best they could hope for was to persuade the US it would be too
costly to invade Japan. Towards that end, kill Americans and sink US Navy
ships. They no longer had the pilots, aircraft, or ordinance to do so -
using conventional methods. But, a man willing to die might put a fast plane
into a US warship.

It is hard to find a warship or even a fleet at sea - especially in the
1940's. An exception is when the ship or ships are forced to stay in a
confined space, as for instance when conducting and supporting an amphibious
landing, which was what the US was doing in Okinawa in April 1945. Around 30
US warships were sunk off Okinawa, perhaps most of them - if not all - by


^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Thu Oct 11 01:07:14 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: Who brought the Gem of Amarra to Angel?
Answer: Oz

Trivia Master: Agent Cooper!

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Oct 11 00:51:52 2018 [Edit/Delete]
yay ronia!

deadguy qod

Buffy and Dawn dress up
Willow hands out candy with sparkle motion
Giles doesn't want to be bothered
Xander eats the candy

Happy Non-Angel Wednesday!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Oct 10 20:38:52 2018 [Edit/Delete]

Maverick & White Wings,

Will ponder and reply later tonight,

Agent Cooper,

I've been following China's actions in the South China Sea since the early
90's. More on this later tonight. While the USN's submarine force is the cat's
meow, it does have weaknesses, some inherent to submarines. More on this later


^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Wed Oct 10 16:05:22 2018 [Edit/Delete]
White Wings - Wolfguard: I read an article recently about Chinese/US tensions in the SCS. The article, in talking about the likelihood of war mentioned that submarines, not carriers or battleships, are really the power of a modern navy, and the US far surpasses most every other nation in that regard.

Apparently the US has a fearsomely armed sub force, which is very hard to detect or keep eyes on. Furthermore, nobody knows for sure how many subs we actually have or where they are patrolling at any given time.

And there isn't much any of our adversaries can do about them. For instance, as the article mentioned, the Chinese can invent as many carrier killing missiles as the want. They have few options to counter US subs, which can hide anyplace and strike from far, far away.

The sub force is what really keeps the Chinese from taking their chances on a war with the US in the pacific, because their leadership knows they would lose a good portion of their navy quickly at the hands of US subs at the outset of any conflict.

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Wed Oct 10 14:34:46 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: Oz!

^ v
YayOfTheDay says:
(Wed Oct 10 13:36:30 2018 [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for ronia!

yay ronia!

today's deadguy memorial angel wednesday question is brought to you by:

the sunnydale candy shoppe

which of the scoobies dresses up, hands out candy, eats the candy, doesn't want to be bothered (halloween)?

Happy Non-Angel Wednesday!

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Oct 10 12:59:38 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: Who brought the Gem of Amarra to Angel?

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Wed Oct 10 12:51:54 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Wednesday, October 10th 2018 C.E.

We have FIVE (5) Birthdays!

Miss Edith

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to belmont, Dax, Destiny, Megdalen, Miss Edith!

his girl at school? She told me that gelatin is made from ground-up cow's feet and that every time you eat Jell-O there's some cow out there limping around without any feet. But I told her that I'm sure the cow is dead before they cut its feet off, right? Dawn, 'Listening to Fear'''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Wed Oct 10 12:37:58 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper--How silly, thinking a suburban housewife could hack into

*tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, success! Good God, you'd think the Pentagon would
do a better job protecting its new weapon systems, slackers. . .*

Belated Yay! Amystar!

^ v
Maverick says:
(Wed Oct 10 07:00:13 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Wolfguard: I looked at my Sign-In Screen on this Windows 10 Dell. I get various pictures of nature (often state parks) and there are two little icons down in the lower right corner of the screen. If I click on the little icon on the left, I get a Password Screen superimposed over the nature picture. Below the place to put in the password, it says "Forgot Password?" and below that it says "Sign-In Options" I'm pretty sure the Staples guy who fixed my computer clicked on the "Sign-In Options." I did this (for you--know that I feared I would screw-up my machine) and I got two little icons. I Googled "Change Default Sign-In Options Windows 10. and got this screen. The one on the left looked like a number key pad (for a PIN,) and the one on the right was strange-looking but the exposition says it is for a cursor. So, you would want to choose the cursor. (I'm assuming at this point it was set for the PIN, and had to be re-set for the cursor.) Once you choose the cursor mode, it should once again accept your password.

white wings: Islam thinks of itself as the successor to Judaism and Christianity? I don't think so. Those Muslims who pray 5 times a day, denigrate Judaism and Christianity 17 times a day. They may think of themselves as the true way that Judaism should have gone.

Wolfguard, white wings: I've also gotten those phishing phone calls and ignored them. I WAS going to report the return phone number to the Feds but so far haven't found the time.

Wolfguard, white wings: "The Arsenal of Democracy" is a book about how Ford Motor Company built a factory at Willow Run that could produce a bomber airplane in a ridiculously short period of time (like a day or an hour.) Of course, they had Rosie the Riveter.


Human Nature

^ v
white wings says:
(Wed Oct 10 05:49:52 2018 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard - Your post snuck in as I was posting. *g*

The aviation advocates actually did a wonderful job in getting so many aircraft carriers built (weren't some converted from other ships?) considering the time and expense required. I vaguely recall that the military was somewhat starved between the wars, but I guess FDR succeeded in expanding budget more as times became more dire.

Interesting about the air defenses. I imagine it didn't hurt that we had radar to see the planes coming.

That makes sense about the US carriers in the Atlantic being mostly for U-boat defense. The British Navy had some teeth in that ocean, and the most serious naval effort was supplying Britain (and later Russia). And getting armies across, of course.

I didn't know about the different decks on the US vs. British carriers. But there weren't so many British carriers in the Pacific to be hit by kamikazes. Some that were hit by planes carrying bombs did have a fair amount of damage, but they seemed to fair better. Still, a number of the US carriers hit were able to continue operating after brief repairs.

The ship-a-day came from my father. He was not often wrong. I expect that figure stuck in his mind from something, and it stuck in mine from the way he was trying to convey the way the country recovered from the losses at Pearl Harbor and the general unpreparedness of industry, and converted the economy into a massive war machine.

There's a book called Samurai! By Saburo Sakai, one of the Japanese fighter pilots, which is eminently readable. It details the skill and pride of the pilots early in the war, and the growing feeling of helplessness against the growing numbers of US planes, and the horror of the senior pilots when the Kamikaze program was announced, and the conflict between iron discipline and obedience and the senseless sacrifice.

^ v
white wings says:
(Wed Oct 10 03:05:33 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Yay amystar!

Happy Birthday AnGel X, emjas_C, Eric, Evanfreed, Sian B, and Yummy!

He's baaaaack!

wolfguard - That scam has been going on for over a year, judging from google. It may have grown more legs with the recent Win 10 debacle. Anyway, it's not personal, or an indication that you've been actually hacked.

There are some YouTube videos of people toying with such callers, but I don't have a long enough attention span to sit through them, although they are probably rather funny as they go along.

I got a call from a gentleman with a rather heavy accent telling me that he was my technical support.
"No you're not."
"Yes, yes, I am."
"Who do you work for?"
"The company that made your computer."
"What company is that?"
"The company that made your computer."
"What kind of computer do I have?"
"I'm your technical support."
"No you're not." Click.

Agent Cooper - Football is not dead! Mind, I only watch Longhorn football. Learning how to spot which team to cheer for was a hard-learned thing in my freshman year, and the habit stuck. *g* But they have actually started winning games. Back in my day (the glory days), that was taken for granted. Now, it's a matter for prayers ahead of time and thanksgiving afterwards. Last weekend they (barely) dispatched an old nemesis for the first time in some years. Anyway, it's not all dead. But I feel for you.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Oct 10 03:01:40 2018 [Edit/Delete]
White Wings,

The old guard believed battleships ruled; however, during the interwar years
there were many naval officers pushing the development of carriers and naval
aviation. While the old guard saw carriers as supporting battleships
(scouting), the aviation advocates did build the foundations through which
carriers came to dominate naval warfare in WWII.

In the early years of the war in the Pacific, both the American and Japanese
naval doctrine was to find the other guy's carrier(s) first so to hit them
first. In the later years, the USN anti-air defense, built around
battleships and cruisers, became so effective that it was often better to
entice the Japanese to attack so their planes could be shot down.

As I recall, the five or six big carrier battles between the US and Japan
were fought over a six month period after which Japan never really

Some end notes:

- American carriers in the Atlantic were largely used for anti-submarine
warfare. The US built around 120 Escort Carriers (smaller than regular

- American WWII carriers had wooden decks. I believe this was to help
stability, but it made the ships more vulnerable to bombs and kamikaze-like
attacks. British carriers had steel decks, I believe because they often
operated close to shore and so were expose to land artillery. The joke was
if a plane tried a kamikaze attack on a British carrier, then after it hit
the order would go out "Man Sweeps!" *g*

- As to your ship-a-day estimate. Making a rough count from 7 December 1041
to 2 September 1945 (VJ-Day) ~ 1,365 days. The US built 2,710 Liberty-class
merchant ships during the war. Looks like you're right. *g*

1 By this time the Japanese were already short experienced
pilots, because of their policy to keep pilots in combat. Once American
aviators reached a certain level of experience they were rotated state-side
to train new aviators (The USN calls "pilots" aviators, because "pilot" has
another nautical meaning , i.e. someone who pilots a ship.


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Oct 10 02:27:42 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Wed Oct 10 02:28:58 2018

Yes, Jesus spoke Aramaic. I believe all the Synoptic Gospels quote Jesus as
saying, ~ No prophet is honored by his family and homies ~ (my paraphrase).
After James and Paul split, Paul preached to the Gentiles of the Greco-Roman
world. Practically all the people of this time were illiterate. The Word was
conveyed orally and remembered orally. In time a few of the literate
Christians1 began putting the Word to "paper", possibly beginning
with Paul's letters to the churches. Since the mainstream Jews weren't
likely to write about Jesus as God, the default languages were Greek and
Latin. For whatever reasons, Greek was the language of the New Testaments.
Consider, "Christ" - Greek.

1 Once upon a time the first followers of Jesus were called the
Nazarene Jews and when Paul left them his followers may have been called the
Pauline Jews.

I've known and know folks who are Muslims. Your analysis does not fit their
beliefs and behaviors. OTOH, your own phrase ...

" Muslims are bellicose and their posture is to be (and or act)
insulted and so they are forever attacking others ...

Excepting perhaps "insulted", this description describes your actions
towards liberals and Muslims. "Forever attacking"


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Oct 10 01:20:55 2018 [Edit/Delete]

I remember reading Clark Cable served in the Army Air Corp as a gunner. Just
googled his name and "service". One article said he went to 13-week officer
training school, trained as an "aerial gunner" and "photographer".
Afterwards he was sent to Europe where he filmed USAAC bomber operations. He
was credited with five combat missions, but airmen (?) who were there said
Gable flew many more than five. One said, ~ they didn't send him on "milk

I went to Amazon books and used the "advanced search" to find memoirs on the
Murmansk Run. Here are two ...

Why Me Lord? (US naval officer's memoirs)

Frozen Fury

Eyewitness Accounts of World War 2 Murmansk Run

This last title may be the subtitle for "Frozen Fury". I took bad notes. *g*


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Oct 10 01:04:04 2018 [Edit/Delete]
White Wings & Maverick,

Thanks for the information. My main machine is still down. Earlier this
afternoon I received a phone call saying ~ my Windows license was gone, not
working or the like and I should phone XYZ. Cell phone said call was likely
a scam, so I ignored it.

Now two questions ...

1) Is the call related to my password problem?

2) If so, is the caller responsible for the password problem or has the
caller recognized folks are having this problem and saw an opportunity for
running a scam?

Reading and pondering posts. Will reply later.


^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Oct 10 00:55:57 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Question: IN which episode did the Order of Taraka appear?
Answer: What's my Line

Trivia Master: Agent Cooper!

Sorry for the delay, I visited a friend of mine who had an accident some time ago and is now back in the area.

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Tue Oct 9 20:50:06 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Maybe we need to advertise.

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Tue Oct 9 13:04:41 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Wolfguard: The problem is likely a direct result of Lostinamerica hacking into your computer some kind of software issue with Win10.

Trivia Girl: What's My Line.

Whelp. Baseball season is over. The Yankees stink. Put a fork in them.

Hey! There's still football though. Um..actually maybe not. My Giants stink even worse.

Oh well, Hockey is here! Go Rangers! .....Oh. ...Errrrr

Yeah, so I'm done with sports till spring.

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Tue Oct 9 12:43:05 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Question: IN which episode did the Order of Taraka appear?

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Oct 9 12:35:54 2018 [Edit/Delete]
yay amystar!

deadguy qod

I think after the two Halloween episodes, the holiday is a total snoozefest for everyone!

Happy Non-Buffy Tuesday!

^ v
YayOfTheDay says:
(Tue Oct 9 12:31:04 2018 [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for amystar

yay amystar!

today's deadguy memorial buffy tuesday question is brought to you by:

the sunnydale pumpkin patch

was giles eventually right about halloween being a snoozefest or are they still disastrous for buffy?

Happy Non-Buffy Tuesday!

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Tue Oct 9 12:30:14 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Tuesday, October 9th 2018 C.E.

We have SIX (6) Birthdays!

AnGel X
Sian B

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to AnGel X, emjas_C, Eric, Evanfreed, Sian B, Yummy!

Yeah, we're building a race of frog-people. It's a good time Xander, 'No Place Like Home'

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
Maverick says:
(Tue Oct 9 07:24:25 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Wolfguard: I had a similar problem with my Windows 10 around 2 or 3 months ago. It would not recognize my password to sign in. I took it back to Staples, where I had just bought it recently. The guy at Staples plugged it in at the front desk and looked at it as if he knew the problem. (Windows could have updated itself overnight to cause the problem.) Anyway, he basically said the sign-in had been somehow changed and he changed it back and it worked. (I hate to admit, I wasn't paying much attention to what he did.) It's like it was asking for something other than my password to start up, like you can set some different protocol to get it to start up. So, if that is kind of your problem, maybe check with Staples. If you get nowhere, let me know and I'll ask the guy exactly what he did.


God Only Knows

^ v
white wings says:
(Tue Oct 9 05:33:40 2018 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard - I googled around with variations
of win 10 corrupted password and win 10
corrupted user account.

There were tantalizing references to a
Hidden Adminisrator reachable by some
arcane key sequences, or some state that
might let you set up an account and use it
to access files.

I also saw something about a user having
his password changed to his Microsoft
account password. You might try using that
password if you havent already.

The more I learn about win 10, the more I
feel like Microsoft wants to control me.

^ v
white wings says:
(Tue Oct 9 00:43:58 2018 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard - I feared for your automation when you were not present. This last update to Win 10 had another nasty side effect. It would delete user's files. I didn't see anything about passwords being lost, but if it could overwrite files, possibly it could delete the storage for passwords. They have paused the rollout. I saw some claims that they could help recover the deleted files, but I don't know about passwords. You could try support and mention the buggy rollout firmly, but if you can't log in, you can't do much, and neither can they. The workaround of copying off files might work if they weren't deleted.
One web page listed Microsoft support numbers as (800) 642 7676 or (800) 892 5234. A Microsoft site suggested +1-800-MICROSOFT (which may be one of the above numbers).

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Oct 9 00:20:26 2018 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I hope your
problems are speedily resolved!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Oct 9 00:10:23 2018 [Edit/Delete]

Issues with Microsoft. After an automatic update Windows 10 would not accept
my password as correct ("incorrect password"). First tried a new keyboard,
problem remained. Next, tried on-screen keyboard, problem remained.
Contacted Microsoft - no help. Office Depot and Best Buy can copy my files
and programs then return the system to virgin state for $150-$200 (with
possible risk they might not copy all the files and programs).

For now I'm waiting to see if the next automatic update corrects the
problem. Until then have decided to buy a Chromebook for internet and word
processing. If anyone has further suggestions for solving the problem, I am
open to learning. *g*

Again the problem ...

From the desktop when I enter my password, system replies "incorrect
password". The password is correct.

Oops: I do not have a password reset disk. My bad.

Will be back tomorrow night to reply to previous and any future posts.

Night All


^ v
white wings says:
(Tue Oct 9 00:03:17 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Yay fenric!

Happy Birthday CrayonBreaky, KAT in the dark, kendra, wolfdog, rity, and Willow166!

DaddyCatALSO - I vaguely remembered Winston Churchill's writing of the Murmansk Run. He was deeply affected by the dangers and losses. But I googled. As long as men write about the dangers of the seas and the heroic deeds of those who take their ship into battle against long odds has a little personal color. I'm sure other pages have more, but this was what I saw. oooh, the link worked!

Maverick - I don't mind the high-falutin language. I like the King James Bible, so I can hardly begrudge the same thing to another religion. *g* So "We" in that context was the royal "we" for Allah. I skimmed a few pages when I was confirming my suspicion that your quote was abbreviated (but not by you), and all pointed out that conveniently skipped portion, but since I was taught that Islam regards itself as the successor to Judaism and Christianity, I did wonder if "Children of Israel" was directed only at Hebrews or at all three religions. What I read didn't go into that.

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Mon Oct 8 23:24:16 2018 [Edit/Delete]
unnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: History
Question: Who attempted to assassinated Ronald Reagan to impress Jodie Foster?
Answer: John Hinckley

Trivia Masters: Agent Cooper, notsoShyGirl
Trivia Newbie: Maverick!

^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Mon Oct 8 20:37:58 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Maverick Yeah.

Agent cooper ,/b] Yes, I know *what* the Murmansk Run was. Problem is, I'd like to read something t hat could tell me how it felt, the way I can find stuff easily for the Blitz, Normandy, the Bulge,e tc. (the Spike-based character in my WWII novel idea sails the Murmansk run repeatedly and comes back, but is killed ina London club by a V-1. His last words, "Not on land! No, not on land!" Lois, the Buffy based character (a civilian pilot working in Britain as on e of "Jessie's Girls") hears about how her long old high school sweetheart dies at Pearl, and loses 3 boyfriends to the war, and Irish ex-apt flying for Canada, the British Naval officer ,a nd an American OSS agent.

^ v
Maverick says:
(Mon Oct 8 20:21:17 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: Travis Bickle

white wings: The Quran is supposedly Allah's words as revealed by Jibreel (Gabriel) to Muhammad, who supposedly repeated it, and it was supposedly written down by others, so the language is perhaps unnecessarily high-falutin. I thought for a moment, there, that you were going to point to the pronoun "We" which shows up from time to time in the Quran. Muslims have a problem with the Christian trinity (which they mistakenly think includes God, Jesus, and Mary) and keep saying there is only one God (saying anything else is called "Shirk" and CAN be punished by Death) and then they go and do the "We" thing. Anyway, go back and read a little bit of that page I linked to in my first post on this subject. Yes, Allah said he commanded Jews to act, like, conscientiously, but the Muslims are not under the same restrictions. (Aside: "Creating Mischief in Arab Lands" is a sin punishable by death and WE (everyone in the U.S.) are all under this verdict, even if we only contributed our tax dollars to pay for our military that visited there.)

Christopher Marlowe: Your comment sounds like you cannot put yourself in Kavanaugh's shoes--to be accused of something with no proof and enormous deficiencies in her "story" and to be questioned over and over about a lie and having it repeated by irrational, unreasonable, hysterical, hateful people with power over you. Although I dislike Susan Collins listen to Susan Collins's speech in which she logically reasoned why she was going to vote "Yes" on his confirmation to the Supreme Court. She's usually wishy-washy on things but in this case she makes unemotional, logical, reasonable, informed sense.

DaddyCatALSO: What's that about Clark Gable's beehive?


Tax Driver

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Mon Oct 8 19:39:14 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Daddycat: The Murmansk Run refers to the supply ships crossing the Arctic Seas from England to Murmansk during WWII as part of the Western Allies' efforts to send supplies to Russia.

It was a very dangerous mission. German subs were always on the prowl and parts of the route were well within range of german fighter planes.

The weather was treacherous and the ocean that far North is freezing cold, so if your ship was hit you could survive for only a few minutes in the cold water.

^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Mon Oct 8 16:49:30 2018| [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I beehive Clark Gable (also too old) and Tyrone Power were also combat pilots. John Payne (this I looked up) was a flight instructor. Doug Fairbanks JR actually commanded small ships, I belief he was on the Murmansk Run, a thing I can find little about in my local library. David Niven, who had been an officer before becoming an actor, was a n infantry-I-believe officer, a s were any number of lesser lights.

^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Mon Oct 8 14:31:19 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl
John Hinckley Jr.

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Mon Oct 8 14:16:03 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe: No, you're thinking of baseball. There's no crying in baseball. Hopefully, though, there may be some crying in Boston tonight. Go Yanks!

Trivia Girl: John Hinckley (sp?) Jr.

Am I in before Notsoshygirl??

^ v
YayOfTheDay says:
(Mon Oct 8 12:49:13 2018 [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for fenric!

yay fenric!

Goodbye Blue Monday!

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Mon Oct 8 12:41:47 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: History
Question: Who attempted to assassinated Ronald Reagan to impress Jodie Foster?

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Mon Oct 8 12:25:19 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Monday, October 8th 2018 C.E.

We have SIX (6) Birthdays!

KAT in the dark

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to CrayonBreaky, KAT in the dark, kendra, wolfdog, rity, Willow166!

Simon: Captain's a good fighter, he must know how to handle a sword. Zoe: I think he knows which end to hold. 'Shindig''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Mon Oct 8 02:36:33 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Happy Birthday OldManFan!

^ v
white wings says:
(Mon Oct 8 02:24:43 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe - I think that it would be preferable to not have tears in what should be a professional hearing. However, that would be pretty dry and boring to the onlookers. This way was more bread and circuses. Well, just circuses. I suppose a little bit of that keeps people awake. My brother still fondly remembers watching a fistfight break out in the Texas State Circus back in his college days. *g*

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Oct 7 21:19:05 2018 [Edit/Delete]
white wings That is true, men and women should be allowed to display emotion without censure. However it is weird that we are talking about this in the contest of a confirmation hearing, it's like there should be no crying in hearings.

^ v
white wings says:
(Sun Oct 7 19:20:03 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Happy Birthday Bashful Lurker, elf, Kat Beck, MCAT, opy1canoby, NumfarGal, OldManFan, Sarah W, StarMaiden_2002, and WinterRain!

Christopher Marlowe - *tips hat to opposing viewpoint* Take heart, if proof exists, I'm sure that CNN and MSNBC stand ready to publish it. It has never worked for Juanita Broaddrick, but times change. It's also too late to stop the confirmation, but something might be achieved in terms of voting behaviors.

I didn't watch the full testimony of either - I was working during hers and found other things to do during his, but I have seen some clips. I think you may be unfair. Blasey Ford teared up during her testimony without being criticized for it, so I think that in the name of equal opportunity, we should allow him to do so as well. It would be unreasonable to say that if men show emotion in the same way, it becomes a pejorative adjective.

I certainly take your point that a woman arguing back aggressively tends to be regarded as a bitca or an hysteric. I'm sure that it's partly body language and vocal tones, and the other part has made me grind my teeth from time to time. But the resulting desire to be an ax murderess has to be stifled. I saw the menus at State Hospitals 38 years ago. Unseasoned, for fear spices would affect behaviors. They may have changed over the years, but I'm not going to take any chances. For that matter I deeply fear that the prison system is still serving a vegetarian soylent green, in spite of having stimulated prison riots by overdoing it in a desire to save money. No ax murdering here. *g*

Maverick - I saw (with help from google) that both quotes were incomplete, but I didn't get into it because I wasn't certain of the point you were going for, not having followed the whole conversation. I don't understand the intention of "We have ordained for the children of Israel". Does that mean that the rest of the statement is a law that children of Israel must follow, or a law that must be followed when dealing with children of Israel? For that matter, I wonder who they mean by "children of Israel". I immediately think of Hebrews, but I don't know that the composers of the Koran/Quran did the same.

The part that you (and various clerics) dropped, the "unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land" is certainly a notable exclusion, since being an unbeliever is occasionally called being a corrupter. I'm not trying to make any point, just pursuing some curiosity.

I might be avoiding working on a spreadsheet. *thinks* Oh, surely not. ;-)

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Sun Oct 7 15:07:30 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Sunday, October 7th 2018 C.E.

We have TEN (10) Birthdays!

Bashful Lurker
Kat Beck
Sarah W

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Bashful Lurker, elf, Kat Beck, MCAT, opy1canoby, NumfarGal, OldManFan, Sarah W, StarMaiden_2002, WinterRain!

I may be love's *****, but at least I'm man enough to admit it. Spike, 'Lovers Walk'

to be added to the birthday list, please email

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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Oct 7 14:02:27 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Maverick Too bad that they didn't allow proof that Kavaaugh is unfit to be a Judge. If a woman behaved like that during a hearing, she would be excoriated, but a crying douchbro gets sympathy.

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Maverick says:
(Sun Oct 7 05:55:37 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Wolfguard, DaddyCatALSO, white wings, lostinamerica, Agent Cooper, ChristopherMarlowe: Yes, BOTH quotes are flawed and were taken out of context. I wanted to show you how Muslims can be underhanded in arguing their positions. These deceitful quotes were from an Islamic Apologist (an Apologist has nothing to do with the standard English term "apology" which means a statement of regret for some words or acts. Rather, an Apologist is like a Defender of the Faith, someone who "explains" various fine points of a specific religion's beliefs.)

So, an Islamic Apologist has an almost impossible job, as Muslims are bellicose and their posture is to be (and or act) insulted and so they are forever attacking others. A Muslim Apologist needs to provide "cover" so he misquotes the Quran 5:32 to make his "religion" sound more high-minded or noble. The first quote I provided was supposedly from the Quran (Koran) and it says a rather magnanimous thing and acknowledges that to kill a person is to kill the world and whosoever saves a person from being harmed saves the world. The Islamic Apologist attributes the quote, by silent default, as if it is about Islam, but let's look at the ACTUAL full quote.

"Here is 5:32 in its context, with all words included (emphasis mine):

'On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.'"

So, the magnanimous ones, it turns out, were the Children of Israel, i.e. The Jews. The Apologist kept this information hidden. In the second quote, the Apologist knew he couldn't afford to allow Muhammad to be compared to Jesus, so he chose to deceive by pulling a carefully chosen quote out of the Bible, a quote that makes Jesus, for those who are unfamiliar with the parables of Jesus, for instance, sound uncharacteristically bloodthirsty. I saw one "debate" where the Muslim quoted Jesus in this way, and it turned out to be a "show-stopper" as the Christian apologist didn't know how to handle such an accusation of Jesus.

(If I am confusing you, perhaps perusing this page Answering Muslims - where Christian Apologists discuss Muslim Apologists would help.)

Since I have become familiar with this Muslim "trick," it has amazed me how often Muslims have gotten away with it. Why? For one, WE are a generous country and want to think well of people. That's why someone like George W. Bush would want to believe Islam is a "Religion of Peace." We don't want to confront Muslims with their duplicity. Also, Democrats don't care to know anything derogatory about anyone that they are sure will vote Democratic. Democrats are willing to put up with all kinds of freeloading people (they don't think the money comes from THEM) and with allowing dangerous people to prey on the general populace, so as to win future elections, which they think they can control. Importing creepy people so you can feel generous or just so you can win elections is a foolhardy endeavor. You can't control those people once they are loose in the U.S.A. The other reason we can't seem to answer Muslim disingenuousness is that we know so little about Islam and don't even know our own Christianity's beliefs.

Wolfguard2: My understanding of "Peter" and "Rock" and "The Pope" goes like this: Peter was originally named Simon and after Jesus renamed him "Peter" is often referred to as Simon-Peter. The word "Peter" or Petros or Petra evidently means "Rock" in Greek, which is a tad confusing. Jesus spoke Aramaic, which "The Passion of the Christ" annoyingly points out. But, either Jesus did it, or the translators did it, but Jesus appears to have made a Greek pun, when he said, "Thou are Peter (Rock) and upon this Rock I will build my church. Of course, elsewhere, Jesus gave Peter the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. It DOES seem to indicate that Jesus wanted Peter to lead his church on earth. St. Peter's bones are supposedly buried somewhere in the Vatican.

Yay, Rule of Law. Yay, Presumed Innocence. Yay, Due Process.


What If God Was One of Us?

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Comma says:
(Sun Oct 7 04:37:44 2018 [Edit/Delete]
I have stated this on here before: "If the Japanese had sent the third wave, the US would have lost all it's docks. No dry docks, no raising and repairing any ships." It may have been a year or more before any ships could have also resupplied Hawaii. The US, without the Hawaiian docks, could never have fought the war against Japan.


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white wings says:
(Sun Oct 7 03:42:54 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Happy Birthday FASTEDDIE, Michael, RTBS, Sebastian, Thumper, and Wigginsy!

lostinamerica - Thank you. I'm doing much better. Pills, ice packs, and a heavy rain to clear the air helped a lot.

We like to stop and think about things. See what's going on. In some cases an instantaneous flight response is a better survival technique. I remember once taking a picture of my horse out in the pasture. I hit the last frame on the roll, and that camera had an automatic rewind. It was a long time before I realized that the rewind had a buzzing that might sound like a rattlesnake. I looked up from the camera, and the horse was just not there. I never saw her go, but she was off in the next pasture. That response often doesn't help in the case of a fire, when the way to a safer place may be scary, but I imagine that it is very helpful for tsunamis.

wolfguard - Aging is rough. On the other hand, I suffer so much less by being smart enough to not try and work through the headaches I get from allergies, and just take rest and remedies.

I wasn't certain of Jimmy Stewart in WWII, but I knew that he flew in the Berlin airlift. Only I don't seem to find reference to the Berlin Airlift in my googling, but I could have missed it, and I'm sure he flew in it unless I'm remembering some movie. *g*

If I'm remembering properly, aircraft carriers came into their own during WWII, but at the beginning the battleships were regarded as the strength of the Navy, and losing those at Pearl Harbor was a crushing psychological blow (even if some were later raised). I definitely remember that the old books that my father had spoke of how defenseless everyone felt after Pearl Harbor, and I remember his telling me that it took time to retool the factories, but that by the end of the war we were turning out a ship a day. Maybe not battleships, but ships.

The Japanese bought more than a few months. Wasn't Midway, in June of '42, regarded as a turning point? Oh, wait. *counts fingers* December to June is six months. OK, a little more than a few months. It depends on the definition of "few". ;-)

I just read recently of the Chinese behavioral scoring system. It looks at everything you do that they can record, and online activity is a factor. They've had google developing a monitored search engine. It affects whether or not you can travel or what jobs you can have. It means that you can effectively hold people prisoner without having to build walls. It certainly is a form of retraining, since if someone wants to eat they might need to work on their social score. We have FICO scores, but the social score is much more inclusive.

In this country we already have the beginnings of online control. It's not officially government control, and it's programmed, so I'm not sure how you'd classify it. Google definitely manipulates search results. Supposedly they are tailoring it to people's tastes by "an algorithm". But we have the released internal dialogue that they had about deliberately manipulating results for the gain of a political POV. Facebook apparently does its best to quietly choke off conservative views, unless someone kicks up a fuss, and then they apologize and blame their "algorithm". There seem to be a lot of those mistakes. But I do suspect that "net neutrality", which was a solution in search of a problem, was intended to inject FCC regulation of the internet, and eventually regulate content. I suspect it even more from the fury with which the repeal was fought, given that the situation it was allegedly preventing had not occurred.

We have a recent case of actual peer pressure. A VP at Facebook had worked in the Bush administration (how the heck did he get through the FB HR processes?) and was a long time friend of Kavanaugh. He wasn't vocal about anything, but someone saw a picture of him sitting quietly in the Senate hearings among Kavanaugh's friends and family. There was a flood of protests by FB employees about his being there. He was apparently forced to apologize for doing that "without consulting his superiors". Yup, get out the tar and feathers. I'll be amazed if he retains that job for very long. Evidently no one in that crowd is allowed to have his own unapproved opinions. Of course that's a relatively small social sample. We have the punishment of group hectoring inflicted for "walking while working for Trump". How long do we go before Maxine Waters and Cory Booker have "will no one rid me of this troublesome " moments, and someone takes them up on it? I do so wish that some right wing nutjob hadn't been recently arrested for threatening to kill liberals. It definitely makes a holier than thou group stance kind of impossible. Makes one think of a wider application of "the colonel's lady and Judy O'Grady are sisters under their skin", doesn't it? *g*

It's time for more pills. I can feel it.

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lostinamerica says:
(Sun Oct 7 02:21:00 2018 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard, ChristopherMarlowe, white wings--And another example that
animals are smarter than people, from the most recent tsunami in Palu according
to a survivor:

"Across the road, she saw floors of the Mercure Hotel collapse.

There was a little voice in my head that said, Maybe it is a tsunami, she said.

Though earthquakes were common in Palu, she could not remember a tsunami
following any of them. Then she saw a horse that had broken free of a carriage
running like crazy. She hit the gas, steering away from the bay."

You're darn right, sister--though I'm gonna have to say I'd have hit the gas when
I saw the hotel floors collapsing ;)

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lostinamerica says:
(Sun Oct 7 00:47:58 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Happy Birthday FASTEDDIE,
and Thumper!

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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Oct 6 23:06:20 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Finally home...just too much in too little time!

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TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Sat Oct 6 12:21:16 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Saturday, October 6th 2018 C.E.

We have SIX (6) Birthdays!


Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to FASTEDDIE, Michael, RTBS, Sebastian, Thumper, Wigginsy!

Don't let the space bugs bite! Kaylee, 'Objects In Space'''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

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lostinamerica says:
(Sat Oct 6 11:59:14 2018 [Edit/Delete]
white wings--So sorry, feel
better :(

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wolfguard says:
(Sat Oct 6 03:52:08 2018 [Edit/Delete]
White Wings,

Aging is not for young folks, eh? *g*

3 of 3

I'll give you that on the use of the IoT. The Chinese system uses ~social
scoring~ to deliver rewards and punishments (I believe by restricting what you
can have or do). I believe in the US such changes will be driven more by peer
pressure and commercial interest as we have seen in how the practice of
smoking is restricted (for the record, I've never smoked in my life).

OTOH, I suspect someone(s) will eventually destroy the Internet, by intent or
accident. *g*


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white wings says:
(Sat Oct 6 03:20:04 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Yay Catriona!

Happy Birthday Seesa!

wolfguard - Apologies. I have thoughts and memories from old reading, but am suffering from fall elm. Allegra has failed me. In my younger days I would have tried to power through it. Now I am retiring with pills and ice packs.

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wolfguard says:
(Sat Oct 6 03:06:07 2018 [Edit/Delete]

Recall the passage in Matthew ...

~ On this rock I will build my Church ~

I may not have that exact, but I believe you will recognize the
actual line if I've gotten it wrong.

What does it mean? An old friend of mine, now passed away, told me he had
misunderstood it till he had reached middle-age. He had been born and raised
Catholic and staid in the Church until sometime in his 40's he left to
embrace Full Gospel / Pentecostal.1 He told me that the Catholic
Church taught the "rock" referred to Peter. During the time when he was
searching for a fuller relationship or meaning he was praying and had an
epiphany, courtesy of God, that "rock" meant revelatory knowledge. From
there was easy to step away and forward. So which meaning is it or is it
instead something else?

1 I've listened to him and another friend debate the history and
variations of these two churches or denominations and I'm pretty sure that
slash doesn't do justice to reality. But you probably get the gist of the
journey he went to from Catholicism to this other take on Christianity.


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wolfguard says:
(Sat Oct 6 02:50:19 2018 [Edit/Delete]
White Wings,

2 of 3

What I remember was one or two dozen ships were seriously damaged or sunk
and several of these were later salvaged and returned to service.
1 To check my memory, skimmed one article and looked at one chart
on Wikipedia.

The article said 18 ships were sunk or grounded. Eight were battleships of
which four were sunk - and three of those were later raised and returned to
service. Utah was completely destroyed as to was the USS
which continues as a memorial to those lost.

What was fascinating was the chart. It showed all the various warships at
Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941. I ran my finger down the list counting and
it looks like 100 ships. Beside each ship's name was what happened to it.
Over 60 were undamaged. So Imperial Japan took out 18 of 100 ships, 8 of
them battleships. Six of those battleships would return to service to fight
Japan. Almost all of the other damaged ships returned to service.
Essentially Japan bought a few months to occupy parts of southeast Asia and
turned the US' might and fury against them. A masterful example of failed
grand strategy.

1 As I remember there were three aircraft carriers in the Pacific
on 7 December 1941. Sarasota was in San Diego (?). Enterprise
and Lexington were ferrying aircraft to Midway and Wake islands.


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wolfguard says:
(Sat Oct 6 02:18:39 2018 [Edit/Delete]
White Wings,

1 of 3

Jimmy Stewart was a real airman in WWII and continued service in the
reserves. I knew he flew combat missions and kept out of the public eye
while doing it. Just skimmed the military service section of Wikipedia's
article on him.

He was drafted in October 1940, but was underweight. He went to one of the
Hollywood trainers and bulked up enough to enlist in the Army in March of
1941. He applied to one of the flight programs and though over the age
limit, he had the advantage of already having a pilot-license and was Jimmy
Stewart. He was commissioned as a 2LT in January of 1942, i.e. around a
month after Pearl Harbor.

His first assignments lead him to fear he was going to be kept in the states
using his celebrity-status to promote the war effort. With help he
eventually got overseas and into combat. He flew and lead combat air
missions in Europe. He appears to have been the real thing - one more
American who believed he should serve his country in fighting the war
against the Axis powers.

The Wikipedia article goes into a lot of detail,


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wolfguard says:
(Sat Oct 6 00:47:02 2018 [Edit/Delete]

Someone is always ready to capitalize on someone else's misfortune What I do
not know is who was leading who in creating the internment policy. I suspect
the US and California governments were responding to the general public's
anger and fear, but I'd also not be surprised to learn that other parties
were promoting it, because of perceived economic benefits.


What Lostinamerica said. *g* But also ....

While a religious quote might elicit a thought or feeling, I tend not to use
such to form my impression of the religion or its followers. There's, as
Lostinamerica noted, the problem of context. People steeped in the
Bible and Koran argue with each other daily on the meaning of this or that
passage. And dare we speak of the Talmud? Inter-generational debates in it.

It's also possible to think one knows the context, but does not. For years
I've been guilty of this error in sagely quoting Chou Enlai. He'd been
asked, "What do you think about the Revolution in France?" He replied, "To
early to tell."

Doesn't that say something about differing perspectives of time or how one
may not know the real consequences of some action or event until years have
gone by? I use to use the line all the time - always attributing it to Chou.

Then I learned Chou wasn't being asked about "The French Revolution", but
about the French students' revolt in 1968. As they say in France, "C'est la
vie!" *G*

Next, there's translation. "To begin to translate, is to begin to lie." Why
is this? For one, languages cannot be counted on to have one-to-one
correspondences in words. Sometimes to render a translation true, one has to
bypass the literal translation. An example ...

A person was doing simultaneous translation of a speech at an international
organization, probably the UN. The speech was in English and was being
translated into Russian. Here's the line ...

Speaker: "A leopard can't change it's spots."

This doesn't mean much in Russian, so ...

Translator: "A hunchback cannot remove his hump."

Thanks for the opportunity to lecture. Now, where do you actually want to
take the comparison of the two quotes?

White Wings,

Replying to yours may take a bit of time to ponder. *g*


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cmarlowe says:
(Fri Oct 5 21:58:02 2018 [Edit/Delete]
yay catronia!

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DaddyCatALSO says:
(Fri Oct 5 19:27:52 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper wolfguard The Japanese-American internment was also heavily-race driven. West coast whites wanted to keep control of the territory, and moving a big chunk of of the Asians inland would help in that. Anecdotally, I heard (from the department head in my grad school time) that many japanses blame it more on the individual states than on the Fed.
There were governemtn handouts given to people, like Home Guard members, on how to "tell" a Japanese form a Chinese.

I can't speak to Rwanda

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Agent Cooper says:
(Fri Oct 5 18:13:40 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Comma - I was sort of puzzled by this story at first, because was under the impression Meth was pretty cheap, as drugs go. I figured it was like heroin, which is very cheap. A quick google search tells me that's not the cast. As prevalent as it is, it's still a very expensive habit.

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Comma says:
(Fri Oct 5 16:55:33 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Kirby Wallace was captured this morning without further bloodshed. He did have a large amount of ammunition along with several different guns and knives. Most, if not all, the guns were stolen.

Two murdered, one kidnapped, several persons terrified in home invasions, numerus vehicles broken into, and a week for residents being afraid of every noise, just to support a meth habit.


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lostinamerica says:
(Fri Oct 5 13:15:49 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Maverick--Your quote is
taken out of context. It is from
a parable about a king and the
king says this, not Jesus.

cc wolfguard, Agent Cooper,
ChristopherMarlowe, DaddyCatALSO,
whit wings

Yay! Catriona!

Belated Yay! Thoin!

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Trivia Girl says:
(Fri Oct 5 12:43:28 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Friday, October 5th 2018 C.E.

We have ONE (1) Birthdays!


Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Seesa!

Don't let the space bugs bite! Kaylee, 'Objects In Space'''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

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