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^ v
wolfguard says:
(Mon Jul 16 06:17:03 2018 [Edit/Delete]
White Wings,

In the past couple weeks I listened to a lecture titled, "Einstein unifies
space and time.' The professor explained, in a way I finally understood, why
FTL travel is impossible. I'll look for my notes, there're here somewhere.

Just watched most of Innocence. I could not bear watching the scene
where Buffy meets Angelus, pretending to be Angel. He took her heart apart.
I began with the scene in the school where Angel beckons Willow to come to

So my emotional memories triggered. One of my favorite exchanges between
Buffy and Giles, happens after the fight at the mall when Giles drops Buffy
off at her home.

~You must be so disappointed in me.

No. No I'm not ..... You couldn't have known what would happen. The coming
months are going to be hard. I expect for all of us (Passions). But
if it's guilt, I'm not your man. All you will get from me is my support and
my respect.


^ v
Shan says:
(Mon Jul 16 03:52:55 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Mon Jul 16 03:53:45 2018
"D'Souza, being someone who was
not raised in our culture, is
especially good at researching
and exposing mythical beliefs,

This statement is in no way

(Well, nice to see some things
haven't changed around here*)


^ v
white wings says:
(Mon Jul 16 03:08:26 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe - You're a stronger woman than I am, to keep your schedule. But I suspect that you feel you are getting something from it, or you wouldn't be doing it, so good for you!

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Jul 16 02:11:12 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Finally coming up for air!

white wings I'm glad this is only once a year! But, obviously it's my own fauld to have a busy schedule. *g*

^ v
white wings says:
(Mon Jul 16 01:12:47 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Happy Birthday AussieBulldog, davidboreanazishot, I'm Kid, and Ranna!

Christopher Marlowe - Congratulations on surviving both your birthday and Saturday. You seemed to have rather a lot scheduled. Why am I not surprised? *g*

wolfguard - I'm not sure about reclassifying FTL travel. Time will tell about that. *g*

The one constant seems to be that unless one is creating alien psyches, the characters must still conform to know human behavior. All else, possible or impossible, revolves around that.

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Sun Jul 15 16:37:21 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Monday, July 2nd 2018 C.E.

We have FOUR (4) Birthdays!

Im Kid

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to BAD, davidboreanazishot, I'm Kid, Ranna!

And I wonder, what possible catastrophe came crashing down from heaven and brought this dashing stranger to tears? Drusilla, 'Fool for Love'''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Jul 15 16:05:25 2018 [Edit/Delete]
I survived Saturday!

^ v
Shan says:
(Sun Jul 15 07:25:57 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Sun Jul 15 07:36:55 2018
Recommendations: Don't watch the
trailer, don't read anything
about it, just rent it blind.
Julie Benz in the film "Circle".

Different film, no BtVS or Angel
alums, also see blind - no
trailers - "Radius" [2017] (also highly

"Cube" - going back a bit but
still a classic.

Avoid "Curvature", though. That
was a bust.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sun Jul 15 06:09:48 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Sun Jul 15 06:12:01 2018
White Wings,

Rod Serling is suppose to have said, science fiction is"the improbable made
possible" and fantasy is "the impossible made probable".

I believe a classic definition says a science fiction story results as a
consequence of a scientific discovery or technological invention that has
happened, but can be imagined as happening. The obvious example is Faster-
than-Light travel.

Fantasy are stories where some of the rules of the fictional verse defy the
rules of the real verse - and there's no imaginable path that could lead
the real verse to the fictional verse. I will now step out on the limb and
jump: Science Fiction stories using FTL travel are really fantasy stories.

ETA: OTOH, I'd wager most writers of classic science fiction could not fully
imagine how their speculative science or technology evolved from the real
verse to their fictional verse. If they could, they might well be
millionaires. *g*


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sun Jul 15 04:53:45 2018 [Edit/Delete]

I agree with you on the series. In talking about Prophecy Girl, I was
suggesting Joss used "The Hero's Journey" for both the season/series
premiere and the season finale. In both Welcome to the Hellmouth/The
and Prophecy Girl Buffy initially refuses the challenge.
In the former, Giles sets the book on vampyrs in front of her and she turns
away. In the latter, upon learning the prophecy says she will die, she
quits. This refusal is required. Some academics/critics/writers claim THJ is
"the" common story outline for all novels and movies. *g* In Myth and the
, Stuart Voytilla takes 50 classic movies and shows how their plot
follows THJ outline. For instance in Star Wars, Luke declines Obi
Wan's challenge to train, etc. Luke can't. He has chores on his Uncle and
Aunt's farm. Then Luke returns home to find them both dead from an Imperial
raid and decides to take up the challenge.

On the American English: I've read in more than one place if one wants to
hear the English of the 16th century, then go listen to the folks living in
eastern Tennessee / western North Carolina. This is where some of the
English colonist settled and being relatively isolated, the spoken language
hasn't changed as much as elsewhere. That's right. Elizabeth and Pepys and
Defoe sounded like American Hillbillies. *g* (And I can say this, having
lived in east Tennessee for a decade or so. *g*).


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Jul 14 23:23:07 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Home, but just for a shower, two more events today!

^ v
Shan says:
(Sat Jul 14 22:26:54 2018 [Edit/Delete]
I'm going to put it down as Darla created the modern day American accent as people everywhere she met started to copy it because they thought it was trendy. Ahead of our times, she was.

^ v
white wings says:
(Sat Jul 14 18:45:05 2018 [Edit/Delete]
pssst! Birthday Gnomette, I checked old boards, and I'm pretty sure you are a month off on the birthdays today.

Happy Birthday Dead Still Pretty (DSP), Kiba Rika, redruM, and Robin TSH!

wolfguard - On the other hand, Mark Twain referred to fiction. Maybe it doesn't apply to science fiction (which is a fiction involving science, which is supposed to be credible until it is fictionalized) and fantasy (which by its title requires a suspension of the credibility requirement).

Sure, the big adoption reveal. And yet the scene still grates on the nerves (excluding yours) all these years later. Nope, created to be annoying. OTOH, I remember Dawn. I try to forget Glory completely. Perhaps that's some of the old Ben/Glory spell still hanging on. Dawn spurred me to a desire for physical violence approaching a spanking. If I think of Glory, I remember that she inspired me to a desire for physical violence in the form of beheading in mid-speech. Forgetting now.

Shan - It's a definite point. I'm going to rationalize it by saying that Darla rose above conventions and accents. Beautiful women tend to manage that better.

^ v
Shan says:
(Sat Jul 14 12:33:58 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Point to ponder:

Darla was born in the 16th
Century according to her
biography and apparently the
Master comes to meet her in that
scene set in 1609 (according to

She's always sounded the same
from that scene onwards.

So ... that means she's had an
American accent since before
there was an America (sure,
Wikipedia says it's in the
Virginia colony but also,
American accents weren't always
what they are now either).

What to make of this conundrum?
She was even apparently born in
the British Isles. For better or
worse, at least Liam had a crack
at an Irish accent for a bit!

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Sat Jul 14 12:33:12 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Saturday, July 14th 2018 C.E.

We have EIGHT (8) Birthdays!

Microphone Chick

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Ariadne, gangfolles, KarenT, Microphone Chick
Minnin, shadowgirl, slayersworld, StGermain!

Right. Piano. Because that's what we used to kill that big demon that one time. No, wait. That was a rocket launcher. Xander, 'Spiralt''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
Shan says:
(Sat Jul 14 12:08:24 2018 [Edit/Delete]

I took the TV portion of BTVS to
be bookended by Sunnydale.

Season 1 Episode 1 - arrive at
Sunnydale and start school there.

Season 7 Episode 22 - Sunnydale
leaves and school's out forever!
(Well, that one anyway.)

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sat Jul 14 06:35:04 2018 [Edit/Delete]
White Wings,

The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be
credible. - Mark Twain

If I remember correctly, Dawn's line ~ Get out! Get Out! Get Out! are from
Blood Ties and shortly followed Dawn's learning her true origins. She
was upset. Small things can be upsetting to teens and what Dawn had learned
was beyond small.

~What did you and Principal Snyder talk about anyway?

~Principal Snyder said you were a trouble maker (beat) And I could care
less. I have a daughter who can take care of herself. Who is brave and
resourceful and thinks of others in a crisis. No matter who you hang out
with or what dumb teenage things you have to do, I'm going to sleep better
at night knowing that.

So how long before this wears off and you're ragging on me again?

Oh, a week and a half.

Very cool.


From School Hard


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Jul 14 05:13:19 2018 [Edit/Delete]
I'm alive!!!! Barely!! One long day down, another long one to go!

^ v
white wings says:
(Sat Jul 14 04:31:50 2018 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard - It's a reasonable retcon. I mean, the alternative is to believe an inconsistency, and we couldn't have that, could we now? *g*

Dawn had at least one moment of clarity and a few moments of grace even in S5, and a few more in later seasons. But before that we had to endure get out!Get Out!GET OUT! *shriek* You'd almost think she was created specifically to cause most of the supernatural problems that Buffy had in S5.

Comma - It will be interesting to see what he comes up with. But I think I'll wait to learn a bit more about it before jumping on the bandwagon. I gave up HBO and some similar networks rather a long time ago.

^ v
Comma says:
(Sat Jul 14 00:38:26 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Happy Birthday Christophermarlowe!

White Wings: I have heard rumors about him doing other series for years. The article did state that NEXFLIX and others were outbid by HBO.

It will be interesting! I believe that every BtVS fan and Firefly fan will at least give the new series a look.


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sat Jul 14 00:38:02 2018 [Edit/Delete]
White Wings,

I suspect Joss knew he wanted the finale story to be Buffy recoiling from
her fate - it bookends the series premiere - but hadn't thought through the
details. I will here and now retcon it for him. *g*

First, all the kill the slayer, kill the slayer shenanigans. The Master was
overwrought. Buffy had slapped him down by slaying his vessel, Luke. Several
weeks after that Buffy goes and slays Darla, his favorite. The only thing
that had gone right for him was the bait-and-switch they pulled on Buffy in
Never Kill a Boy on the First Date. That calmed the Master enough to
sit back and think more deeply on what the prophetic books said - hey,
they'd been right about the annointed one. So what does the Master discover?
You're going to need the Slayer now to free you. Belucifer! Missed that
stake, didn't we.

So what those three vampires Buffy took down? Truth be told, they weren't
out to kill Buffy. They were out to capture her. They failed. And this would
have confirmed the prophecy to the Master - the child would bring Buffy to
him. The child was the way.

All the other vampires were newbies, they wouldn't have a chance against the
Slayer, but they might keep her and her watcher busy enough not to discover
the real meaning of the prophecy. *g*

As to Dawnie, just remember when Dawn realized she had been cut, the blood
was flowing, and the dimensions were opening, she tried to jump. When Buffy
stopped her, Dawn argued you have to let me go. Only blood will close it.
You have to let me go.


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sat Jul 14 00:05:23 2018 [Edit/Delete]

Yes, for the conclusion of a deductive argument to be true the logic has to
be valid and the premises, aka 'facts', have to be true. One can begin
examining an argument from either point - the premises or the logic. If a
premise is false or the logic invalid, then the conclusion hasn't been
proven.1 Consequently, a person's reasoning can be flawed because
their facts are wrong or their logic is invalid or both.

So when I wrote about 'flawed reasoning', it means I found facts and/or
logic of the reasoning offered in some or all of those sites flawed. In some
cases, the facts were "not established". Declaring one party of a debate is
"begging the question" is declaring, 'You're assuming a fact to be true that
hasn't been proven / proven to my satisfaction.'

While doing a book tour author Juan Enriquez observed that the people who
read the best-selling "Left Behind" series and those who read Dan Brown's
best-selling 'Robert Langdon' series would not deign to read the other. So
if you had never read either one and were trying to decide which to read,
just look to what folks were reading each series. Which group are you most
like? Decision made.

Which brings us to D'Sousa. Now and then, I've heard him on a news program,
but nothing memorable. I've read one or two reviews on one or two of his
books. I've not read any of his works, because time is limited and I've
assessed the worthiness of his reasoning by the company he attracts.
Essentially they come across as folks like yourself who believe they know
the "TRUTH" and anyone that doesn't agree with them is, at best, brain-
washed by liberal society, etc. This isn't my cup of tea.

1 A particular conclusion might be true, but if the given
argument / reasoning is flawed, then the conclusion sits in limbo waiting a
better argument.


^ v
white wings says:
(Sat Jul 14 00:01:45 2018 [Edit/Delete]

Happy Birthday Bronzebeta!

Happy Birthday Christopher Marlowe!

Happy Birthday Hollyn, LadyMuck, Spikara, and Zophiel!

Yay Hello Cutie!

Christopher Marlowe - How has your birthday gone? Did you have to work all day? Has there been cake?

wolfguard - Your theory about the Master's sending the vampires into the high school makes sense. It was obviously planned and posed, and they had not previously made mass incursions into the school. But I don't give him too much credit as a master planner. Remember that whole "If you hadn't come, I couldn't go" bit? Why on earth were his minions trying to kill the Slayer night in and night out, even three in one night at the beginning of Prophecy Girl, rather than trying to keep her alive until she could be lured down to be sacrificed by the Master?

Of course you liked Dawny. You are a contrarian. *g* Not that she was evil, but no one did her any favors by taking her hysterics seriously.

Comma - Huh. I wonder what happened to the pilot for another series that he was supposed to produce? Suddenly that's hard to find on google.

^ v
Comma says:
(Fri Jul 13 23:22:06 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Fri Jul 13 23:41:41 2018
So Joss is writing, directing, executive producing, and the showrunner for a show for HBO called, 'The Nevers'.

Nevers is described by HBO as a sci-fi epic about a group of Victorian women who find themselves imbued with unusual abilities.

I must wonder if any BtVS alumni will be on the show?


^ v
Maverick says:
(Fri Jul 13 21:48:25 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: J. Fred Muggs

Wolfguard: Agent Cooper? No, it was in response to your e-mail, as in: "5) Your recommendations on reading? From the same person that post links to articles which I've often found flawed in reasoning? Not going to be at the top of my reading list." The thing is: One CAN question the reasoning once the facts are established. D'Souza, being someone who was not raised in our culture, is especially good at researching and exposing mythical beliefs, like the one I was particularly puzzled by as a child. I used to question: "Wait a minute, you mean at some point the Democrats became the Republicans and the Republicans became the Democrats?" And people (including my teachers) always used to say, "Yeah, that's what happened." D'Souza researched this and documented that the only real person who switched parties at that time was Strom Thurmond.


Midnight Cowboy

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Jul 13 18:07:30 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Prophecy Girl

After watching it last night, realized I may have missed something the first
several times around of watching it. *g*

First for those few who might not remember the plot. The first season finale
apocalypse is rising. Buffy learns the prophecy says she will die fighting
the Master. Buffy learns of this when she overhears Giles and Angel debating
the prophecy. Up to this point, Buffy was in pretty good moood.1
Not now. Her solution? I quit. I'm just sixteen Giles. I don't want to die
(Kudos, kudos, kudos to SMG's performance). So Buffy turns and walks away -
figuratively and literally. What changes her mind?

Cordelia was having feelings for a boy. He had agreed to get some
audio/video equipment from school and bring to the Bronze (?). There'd be
some delay, so Cordelia asked Willow for help and the two of them went to
the room where the equipment was kept. On the way Cordelia confesses to
Willow that she should be mad at the boy, but she thought it was cute. They
look through the door window and see, from behind, the boys on the counch.
Cordelia ~ Oh! The fell asleep watching cartoons. So cute! (beat) I should
be mad. She and Willow enter the room to find a massacre. Vampires had
struck home ...

And that's what Willow tells Buffy. The vampires came to the place that was
my place and killed the students. And they had fun. It's then that
Buffy realizes being the Slayer means she's the one that has to stand in the
breach - prophecy be damned. She resolves to do it.2 Tells Willow
to stay in tonight. Take care.

Now, what I think I might have missed. I took the massacre as just one more
instance of the increasing vampire activity that Buffy and Giles were seeing
as the apocalypse approached. It was a plot device focusing Buffy on the
choice she faced. Now I'm thinking the Master ordered that specific attack
as a way to goad Buffy to come to him, because he understood that's what the
prophecy foretold for him to escape. He tells that last part to Buffy before
he kills her. ~Prophecies are tricky. (If you hadn't come for me, I couldn't

That works both ways, because Buffy did die, but Xander was there to revive
her and a revived Buffy was someone to contend with. Dusted Master.
Prophecies are tricky.

1 She was a bit down over what had just happened between her and
Xander (and that scene alone shows why the story doesn't age - that scene is
replayed, probably everyday somewhere in the teenage world).

2 Here Prophecy Girl telling the season finale as a stand-
alone "Hero's Journey". Buffy is most reluctant to face the challenge.
States she will not. And then something happens that leads her to accept it.


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Jul 13 16:41:39 2018 [Edit/Delete]
lostinamerica...thank you!

^ v
Ebdim9th says:
(Fri Jul 13 16:38:52 2018 [Edit/Delete]

Happy Birthday

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Jul 13 12:54:45 2018 [Edit/Delete]
yay hello cutie!

Happy Thank Joss It's Friday!

Happy Birthday to me and I'm hitting the ground running today!

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